DAC/ 前級/ 後級??

新手一問, 聽D師兄成日講 HiFi is "Matching Game", 器材/ 線材的功能特性要互相match先有好效果.

咁其實DAC/ 前級/ 後級要點match??
其主功能是怎麼??
DAC = 前級嗎??

:-k  :-k  :-k

DAC is "Digital Analog Converter" which convert digital signal from CD to analog signal so that you can hear those "1101101"

The connection usually

CD -> DAC -> Pre-Amplifier -> Power Amplifier

For matching, initially you need to define the budget as it affect your choices.

[quote:50ea30adf3="william"]DAC is "Digital Analog Converter" which convert digital signal from CD to analog signal so that you can hear those "1101101"

The connection usually

CD -> DAC -> Pre-Amplifier -> Power Amplifier

For matching, initially you need to define the budget as it affect your choices.[/quote]

Thanks William,
其實我想改善我的system因為我發覺高音OK, 但低音成日痴住個中音唔識潛落去. 如想低音潛落D,
應該加DAC?
定換speaker cable (i am using DIY AQ CV-4)?
定係要加Pre-Amplifier??
Or I need to buy some isolator(釘腳/釘墊)??
Sorry 我係新手比較麻煩

Can you post your config here

CD?
Power Amp?
Speaker?

so that experts here can help you to solve the problem

[quote:f49cd3a2cc="william"]Can you post your config here

CD?
Power Amp?
Speaker?

so that experts here can help you to solve the problem[/quote]

my config. just an entry level equipment as follow,
CD/ DVD Player: Onkyo DV-SP502
AVM: Onkyo TX-SR603
Speaker: B&W DM602S3
Speaker Cable: DIY AQ CV-4
Coaxial Cable between DVDP & AVM
我發覺高音OK, 但低音成日痴住個中音唔識潛落去. I want to improve that, but don't know the path .... :cry:  :cry:

I am not sure whether this is equipment limtation or I need to buy something (e.g DAC, Cable, isolator ...etc) to enhance. Pls help.
#-o

Goldlightan:
equipment limtation or I need to buy something (e.g DAC, Cable, isolator ...etc) ??

As I said to you, equipment is the main concern 70% but we can't always replace the equipment( one equipmnet changed may be all be changed), then we must enhance by another direction.

First of all, DAC WILL HELP TO MAKE THE SOUND MORE DETAILS AND CLEAR, but not mainly for bass, Cable can power up the bass and vocal part if you choose a right materials, you may control it, you case, CV4 not famous for power bass, 高音OK because you used the silver materials. Copper Power cable also can help the bass and vocal part.

Isolator can help over bass or help to make the bass clear,  but not mainly to make powerful, if you choose right isolator may be can make the bass stable , eg. Black Diamond Rcing MK4...for speaker.

Choose your right way to enhance, every things can give help but you must choose the right direction, hope this can give help.

How about your metal sand? Have you bought it?

[quote:9b512c209a="DDL"]Goldlightan:
equipment limtation or I need to buy something (e.g DAC, Cable, isolator ...etc) ??

As I said to you, equipment is the main concern 70% but we can't always replace the equipment( one equipmnet changed may be all be changed), then we must enhance by another direction.

First of all, DAC WILL HELP TO MAKE THE SOUND MORE DETAILS AND CLEAR, but not mainly for bass, Cable can power up the bass and vocal part if you choose a right materials, you may control it, you case, CV4 not famous for power bass, 高音OK because you used the silver materials. Copper Power cable also can help the bass and vocal part.

Isolator can help over bass or help to make the bass clear,  but not mainly to make powerful, if you choose right isolator may be can make the bass stable , eg. Black Diamond Rcing MK4...for speaker.

Choose your right way to enhance, every things can give help but you must choose the right direction, hope this can give help.

How about your metal sand? Have you bought it?[/quote]

Hi DDL,

Thanks for your sharing.
But according to AQ web, CV-4 is copper material instead of silver. "....CV-4 uses extremely high purity Perfect-Surface Copper+ (PSC+) conductors."

And my facing problem is Bass is already powerful enough (sometime feel BOOM, so I trun down the dB already). But I feel the Bass just next to mid-frequency(vocal). That's why I say 低音成日痴住個中音唔識潛落去, that means I feel 低音 & 中音 is very close together and I would like to make the Bass 潛低D.

So, I am not sure whether isolator can help in my case. For you recommended Black Diamond Racing, I find quite good comment in diff. web/ forum. In my case I am not sure whether I need to put it in CDP or speaker side can help(because this is diff. model)??? Or I need to replace Speaker Cable.

I saw Black Diamond Racing is ~$ 4xx (1 set with 3) in shop, but I am not sure whether included both Cones and Pucks, what's your experience??

This quite diff. for me (new hand) to find the path to solve problem, many thanks for brother sharing!!!  :  :

I have done my sand project, will post for sharing soon. Many Thanks!!!

Oh! I see. I understand more.

低音 & 中音 is very close together and feel BOOM,----- that means the避震 not well but not really means over bass, Someone misunderstand that cause of BOOM sound is over bass, it's mixed problem, may be your problem of避震 or problem of control of power amp, may be the listening area. But normally all focus on problem of避震. Every setting(Lo or Hi End) need to consider the 避震.. No need to worry that the釘腳 will be wasted. I have used 8-9 sets 釘腳 for different parts. The results are good enough.

Better try one set釘腳 for your CDP, it really can help to make the gradation of the sound more clear, add DAC also can do this but expensive more(buy one more coaxial and interconnects).

There are several method to put the , has different bass effect, you can call me to ask, may be you still have my phone no.

Black Diamond Racing MK4 is more dynamic and really good for CDP, pre-amp, amp, better than Golden sound. $4xx has cones only and enough to solve your problem.

The otherside please check how about the effect of the speaker stand now with metal sand? Is it over filled and make the sound too hard?

After you try the釘腳 for CDP, it is really big different, but still feel the sound is mixing, then may be the Onkyo AV amp now can’t meet your expectation of pure audio part..

Anyway hope you can fix it

[quote:2187dedeeb="DDL"]Oh! I see. I understand more.

低音 & 中音 is very close together and feel BOOM,----- that means the避震 not well but not really means over bass, Someone misunderstand that cause of BOOM sound is over bass, it's mixed problem, may be your problem of避震 or problem of control of power amp, may be the listening area. But normally all focus on problem of避震. Every setting(Lo or Hi End) need to consider the 避震.. No need to worry that the釘腳 will be wasted. I have used 8-9 sets 釘腳 for different parts. The results are good enough.

Better try one set釘腳 for your CDP, it really can help to make the gradation of the sound more clear, add DAC also can do this but expensive more(buy one more coaxial and interconnects).

There are several method to put the , has different bass effect, you can call me to ask, may be you still have my phone no.

Black Diamond Racing MK4 is more dynamic and really good for CDP, pre-amp, amp, better than Golden sound. $4xx has cones only and enough to solve your problem.

The otherside please check how about the effect of the speaker stand now with metal sand? Is it over filled and make the sound too hard?

After you try the釘腳 for CDP, it is really big different, but still feel the sound is mixing, then may be the Onkyo AV amp now can’t meet your expectation of pure audio part..

Anyway hope you can fix it[/quote]

Thanks DDL,

At the week end, I will goto shop see see Black Diamond Racing again. For CDP use, just cones without puck whether just 尖角頂住CDP就OK? 前2後1?

Whether MK4 suitable for both CDP/ DVDP/ AVM/ Speaker?? and MK3 just for CDP/ DVDP??

For the sand of speaker stand, I find metal sand in shop but really very expensive for me. They ask for HK$ 60/Kg, for my speaker stand, the shop guess ~15-18Kg required (over $1,000).

Then mail to B&W, they suggest me to buy 石英沙, claimed they always use this to install speaker stand for their customer. I find this $10/ lb, I buy 30 lb (total $300). After serval testing, from 75% full --> 70% --> 65% --> 60% ...etc. I feel the sound of 60% full is good for me. Finally just ~18 lb 石英沙 was used for 2 speaker stand, the sound is OK for me but I still feel the stand 仲好輕, 唔係好穩陣. 而釘腳still using the original鐵釘腳 with 銅釘墊.

Thanks again, u really help me much.
    

Goldlightan兄：我認為先擺正喇叭，聽聽得唔得，如未合心意，就為Amp配條電源線先，置於加釘腳可之後做，不要操之過急，慢慢來。

宗仔
Goldlightan has done before and moved to right place, and also we know that change the power cord will have big effect...but....his amp's cable can't be changed Onkyo SR603 AV amp, And also now used DVD player for audio part, hardware limited will cause the bass and vocal not stable and not clear. Yesterday he found out a big problem, may be he should solve it first, wait for his reply.

[quote:51b9c28485="宗仔"]Goldlightan兄：我認為先擺正喇叭，聽聽得唔得，如未合心意，就為Amp配條電源線先，置於加釘腳可之後做，不要操之過急，慢慢來。[/quote]

Thanks 宗仔,

I will let the system back to 0 start to setup again 1 buy 1, hope can tune it better. keep update & experience sharing.

:

[quote:8c80e365c0="DDL"]宗仔
Goldlightan has done before and moved to right place, and also we know that change the power cord will have big effect...but....his amp's cable can't be changed Onkyo SR603 AV amp, And also now used DVD player for audio part, hardware limited will cause the bass and vocal not stable and not clear. Yesterday he found out a big problem, may be he should solve it first, wait for his reply.[/quote]

Nice to talke with u yesterday, for the interesting issue (高音有時好似有D走音/怪聲). I have try to trouble shoot last night as you suggested method.

I have restore the AVM's setting to factory default, but problem still happen. I call Onkyo hotline this morning, they claimed never got this compliant before and suggest me to do (1) swap cable (speaker cable/ coaxial/ RCA ...etc) for testing. If still have problem, (2) try to connect another CDP to see the effect for problem issolation. Luckly (maybe bad luck :cry: ), the CDP & AVM still have warranty.

I will spare some time to test it one by one in this few days.
:cry:  :cry:  :cry:

(高音有時好似有D走音/怪聲)，你所言是否在高音時會出現以裂聲情況呀！如果可以的話，可否用中文嗎？請諒，講出重點即可。

[quote:efd2e4d0a6="宗仔"](高音有時好似有D走音/怪聲)，你所言是否在高音時會出現以裂聲情況呀！如果可以的話，可否用中文嗎？請諒，講出重點即可。[/quote]

類似la, u have this 經驗??

係呀，我都試過這個情況，你先重以下部驟睇睇，1.睇睇器材與電制位距離是否夠最少6呎或以上，2.將cd機及amp取出去比原位較遠的地方再試幾曰睇睇得唔得。

DDL, 宗仔

攪完一大輪現在OK了, 之前D怪聲可能係因為AVM後面speaker cable個位扭得唔夠實 (bad contact). 因Onkyo AVM唔support蕉插/义, 我只可插條cable之後扭埋所以扭得吾好都唔知. Sorry Sorry 虛驚一場.

Yes! Your setting is very normal and can't be too sharp... OK now find the problem and happy to listen more.

剛剛買了dac - ah (改版)，d聲真係好o左不錯

[quote:affd2d5ca8="richome2"]剛剛買了dac - ah (改版)，d聲真係好o左不錯[/quote]

Hello richome2,

can you share more to all brother? Which AMP/ Speaker/ CDP u are using?
what kind of improvement after DAC-AH connected?? e.g. Base, 高音, background sound ...etc

Thanks!!! :

[quote:d7942cff1c="DDL"]Oh! I see. I understand more.

低音 & 中音 is very close together and feel BOOM,----- that means the避震 not well but not really means over bass, Someone misunderstand that cause of BOOM sound is over bass, it's mixed problem, may be your problem of避震 or problem of control of power amp, may be the listening area. But normally all focus on problem of避震. Every setting(Lo or Hi End) need to consider the 避震.. No need to worry that the釘腳 will be wasted. I have used 8-9 sets 釘腳 for different parts. The results are good enough.

Better try one set釘腳 for your CDP, it really can help to make the gradation of the sound more clear, add DAC also can do this but expensive more(buy one more coaxial and interconnects).

There are several method to put the , has different bass effect, you can call me to ask, may be you still have my phone no.

Black Diamond Racing MK4 is more dynamic and really good for CDP, pre-amp, amp, better than Golden sound. $4xx has cones only and enough to solve your problem.

The otherside please check how about the effect of the speaker stand now with metal sand? Is it over filled and make the sound too hard?

After you try the釘腳 for CDP, it is really big different, but still feel the sound is mixing, then may be the Onkyo AV amp now can’t meet your expectation of pure audio part..
Anyway hope you can fix it[/quote]

Hi DDL,

Thanks for your help.

As talked previously, 3 leg isolator is difficult to my low end CDP. So I have find another 4 leg type isolator from internet, finally I have put VibraPOD Isolator under my CDP(this is puck NOT cones). It really have effect, even this just cheap cheap HK$ 1xx, I feel the sound is a BIT more strong/ sharp.

Then some friend teach me to put 膠腳(just few dollar at家品店) between my speaker and speaker stand. After that, the 立体感 was a BIT improved.

AMP, CDP, Speaker & their accessory is really a interesting matching game, still have many thing need to learn.

At last, can u share your experience when consider upgrade??
My original thinking before buy my system is guess 50%:50% between for music and movie. Recently I find I really no time to see movie and become 90% music : 10% movie.
In this case, which part I need to upgrade first?? Speaker?/ AMP??
:

Goldlightan:
Sorry for my late reply because of the house moving.
Grade to hear that you found new method to improve the sound system.
For music 90%, you may go into the stereo world and must spend many many lession.
If you go for new stereo products, you need pay many many, don't go for those AV 's brand product again. Let's search some 2nd old model of foreign stereo products, if budget limited, China made products can give first good  impression but you may not go for Hifi sound which not full range balance sound. Natural is the best. QC also is your concern, I have a friend who has a DAC problem and let the power amp burn out. All the cables are burn in and has no problem.
If you go for some foreign products, you may find another world and interesting.

[quote:655ea8aa59="DDL"]Goldlightan:
Sorry for my late reply because of the house moving.
Grade to hear that you found new method to improve the sound system.
For music 90%, you may go into the stereo world and must spend many many lession.
If you go for new stereo products, you need pay many many, don't go for those AV 's brand product again. Let's search some 2nd old model of foreign stereo products, if budget limited, China made products can give first good  impression but you may not go for Hifi sound which not full range balance sound. Natural is the best. QC also is your concern, I have a friend who has a DAC problem and let the power amp burn out. All the cables are burn in and has no problem.
If you go for some foreign products, you may find another world and interesting.[/quote]


DDL,

Thanks!
can you share/ introduce some entry level AMP and Speaker for Stero??
For low end product whether China 膽機 better then 石機??
How about speaker? Which brand's speaker is good for Stero with entry level price (~ $8K)???
:      :

小弟對hifi 好有興趣，但係只係一張白紙
見到呢個topic, 好有興趣
pre-amp, power-amp, 同av-amp 既分別係點呢?
可唔可以 cd -> dac -> av-amp?
同埋pre-amp 既作用係乜呢?
咁dac 既input 係唔係用optical 或者 coaxial?



[quote:58a4aa353c="william"]DAC is "Digital Analog Converter" which convert digital signal from CD to analog signal so that you can hear those "1101101"

The connection usually

CD -> DAC -> Pre-Amplifier -> Power Amplifier

For matching, initially you need to define the budget as it affect your choices.[/quote]

test

[quote:b9e0bac8ab="iamfai"]小弟對hifi 好有興趣，但係只係一張白紙
見到呢個topic, 好有興趣
pre-amp, power-amp, 同av-amp 既分別係點呢?
可唔可以 cd -> dac -> av-amp?
同埋pre-amp 既作用係乜呢?
咁dac 既input 係唔係用optical 或者 coaxial?



[quote:b9e0bac8ab="william"]DAC is "Digital Analog Converter" which convert digital signal from CD to analog signal so that you can hear those "1101101"

The connection usually

CD -> DAC -> Pre-Amplifier -> Power Amplifier

For matching, initially you need to define the budget as it affect your choices.[/quote][/quote]

yep, your connection is OK
可唔可以 cd -> dac -> av-amp?

咁dac 既input 係唔係用optical 或者 coaxial?
yep, CDP --> (Optical/ Coaxial cable) --> DAC --> (RCA cable) --> AVM is OK

明白, 唔該晒Goldlightan

但係pre-amp, power-amp, 同av-amp 既分別係點呢?
用左十幾年都係用avm
都未試過用前級後級
所以都唔知乜黎
同用avm 既分別係點呢? 機價又相差幾多呢?

Yes, I want to know too. Please advise.