正料 Pre Amp

Viewer 兄,

This is what I have promised to send you. Hope you like it. There are quite some dust there. Will go to Wah Fai or so to get a can of "Duster" to clean it up later.

cat sir是不是你自己的，還有很多地方可以改善呢！

alfcat,


it look like a 馬蔅士M7 pre amp 線路war!!!!!!!！
手工好, 焊點一下過,電阻  in parallel  好聲之源.
alphs 黑美人 volume 制.失真極低,我也換在我的擴畜音机內,好聲及 sweet.

I think it's sound = around 7k to 10k per amp in market.

thanks.

Dear Modi Sir,

No, it is not mine. It is my colleague 秋官's. He is so nice that he lent me soooooo many things to try out.

If you don't mind, suggest to us what can be improved on so that we can learn from you.  :wink:

Dear Viewer,

No, it is not a Marantz. It ia a Matisse ... should be of the Reference Series. This one is DIY following its layout or so with some modifications.

I "THINK" the original Matisee Reference should cost around HK$ 20K. So far, I like the sound of this pre-amp.

But as Modi Sir said, there are still room for improvements ... and here we are waiting for his valuable advice ......

Dear Viewer,

If you look closely at the second photo, you can see the word "MATISSE" next to the RED WIMA cap at the lower left. The WIMA covered the top left of the letter "M" of the word "MATISSE".

alfcat,

you are right.
very good pre amp.

alfcat,

do u have the circuit diagram/schematic of this matesse pre amp?

if u have, can u send it to me at sswong@healthtronics.com.my ???

Cat Sir,

From memory, the price of a new Matisse pre-amp was :-

- Atom HK$10k - 12k
- Fantasy HK$20k - 23k
- Reference HK$43k - 45k
- Gold Reference approx. HK$100k

I also like the sound of Matisse.

Harry

Dear Harry,

Wow ... HK$ 4xK ...... This one should be a DIY Reference Series. Not a new model ... been sitting in 秋官's Home for some time. He is just to generous to let me have a try.

Dear WINDWSS,

We are looking for it. We saw it in the past but too rush today. Will try to see if we can have more free time tomorrow ....

CAT

Dear WINDWSS,

These are the Schematics I got. Hope they help.

秋官 got them in the Internet last night. You should thank him instead, ha..ha.. I just do the uploading.

thanks you alfcat & 秋官 .

Alcat since the amp is with you now, vcan you give me the value of the resistor as it not mentioned in the schematic. Besides, the 2nd picture on rectifier parts seems not clear here, can you send it to my email? thank you!

The second one is not clear as it was scanned at a low resolution. Try the following ones.

Cat Sir

大陸出D數值吾好信.

我今年頭砌左部前級.每間大陸廠出D數值都吾同.最攪笑有次北上個老闆問我借部原厰真機看.連真機都無叄考過己經出線路版及數值賣比人.吾怪得D砌機一成原厰機聲都無.

Matisse 的 DIY 已經有了接近 10年，上面的線路都是和原廠有出入的。原廠的回輸電阻是 68K 或 34k, 而不是 20K, 但是我們在DIY 的時候是否是十足的數值呢？如果是的話，我們能否找到原廠的 PRC 電阻和 WIMA 特選 電容？如果物料都不一樣，就算線路一樣，聲音多數都變了。marantz  7 DIY 多得不得了，但我從來無聽過那一部 DIY ,似 7 仔的聲。如果改動了某些數值去配套自已的系統，那有甚麼不可？
DUALXOEN 兄不必介意大陸廠家的套件，反正他們找餐飯食，提供過方便。

Depends on the DIYer's objective.  If it is to achieve the original's performance/features (because he likes it so much) at more affordable price, then changing the design/value defeats the objective.  I would prefer based on the original as much as possible unless this is not possible.

Harry

多謝各位大哥意見. 這部機是多年前一位前輩砌的. 料是從香港一間著名品店中取得 (Sorry, 不方便說是那一間). 可悲是前輩作法未完成已仙去 ... 秋官為他將之完成 ....

D Schematics 圖只是從 Internet Download (方便), 不一定是這部機的全真版, 請勿見怪.

Anyway, I like the sound of this Pre-amp. It seems to be a bit High Pitch (good for listening to ladies vocals). Will test it more later.

是的，大部份DIY都想跟原廠的，不過知識和實並不可行。比如 Matisse reference 原廠不是用線路板的，做的時候就應跟足。如果走線路板的不如說彷 Matisse 線路吧。不管是否Matisse 原或彷線路，反正捉到老鼠就是好貓。

This is the point I don't quite understand.  To me, hard wire board is actually easier to replicate.  For PCB board, you need to use chemical, and also, some PCB  boards have two layers of circuit, making it more difficult to replicate.  

I think possible reasons for these clones containing bits and pieces differences from originals could be either clone manufacturers will not spend money to buy the original amp to ensure they copy the exact, or being careless with details, or cut corners to make work easier and simpler, hence bigger profit margin.

Thank you alfcat and all others friend's info.....

I think DIY to achieve original sound is really difficult....a lot china made PCB is blindly copy without testing.

For critical resistance value a better way may be is to use variable resistor to find on the suitable value...

I have ordered a CD with over 130 Vintage Amp Schematics. Let's see how it comes out ... should arrive in about 10 days.

Cat sir,

Interesting to know that there is such vintage amp schematics CD.  I always think these schematics are available from Internet free.  Probably, those obtained at a price will be more authentic.  Let us know if you find the difference.

Harry

見你地咁開心，我又把我做的 Matisse Reference Pre-amp 上傳

Internal

ladder volume control

of course, you need some good tube for this amp....

Dear Accphoto,

You do it yourself? Wa ... you have to be a very RICH man ... ha..ha.

accphoto

what are the tube coolers good for?

Dear Accphoto,

Would you please send an email to achan@sjc.edu.hk? I would like to seek some advice from you ...

Since this circuit running at 420V high voltage, the tube are quite hot. so the tube cooler will low the temperature of the tube. Feel safer.

Dear Alfcat,
Yes, this is a DIY per-amp. Actually, it is not that expensive if you buy a factory made machine which will easily cost you over 30,000. The whole cost of this machine is about 1x,000 but I think it can compare to machine with more than 2-3 times the price.

Wa ... it still costs $ 1x,xxx ma. I am sure it sounds great and the joy one gets from it should be more than double the price.

It is just that I am too poor to afford something like this .. ha..ha.

Hi Accphoto,

Just found this post, can't believe it!  What a great gear!

Is the power supply separately housed?  I can't find any transformer inside the amp.  The amp looks more beautiful and slim, can you share the skill and knowledge on making a separate power supply?

Btw, where did you find the chassis?

Yes, I do use a separate power supply. The pre-amp is more silent than house in the same case. I am using a "stock" type kit which is designed for the matisse amp. It consists of independent power stabilizer for each channel. E-cap is using black-gate.  

The case is customed made in China. it is  a little bit slim but look quite nice.

For pre-amp, I still perfer  " 搭棚"  rather than using PCB. The sound is purer and better.

Dear friends,

Last time I went back to the Mainland, me and my friends saw some pretty nice Pre-amp PCB and kits.

The PCB are well constructed. For a Marantz 7, it is around RMB $ 1,700 with Holco resistors and Auricaps or equivalent caps. The Power Supply is separated. However, I don't really like the two housings as they were pretty huge.

On the PCB there is the name of the manufacturer / website. I can't recall it but I have seen that site in DIY audio forums in the past.

The shop also has 和田茂氏, Audio Note 7 and 300B, 2A3 push pull, VT60.

Will go back to China soon. I will try to collect more information by then.

CAT

Hi accphoto & alfcat,

Glad to meet you in the air, I learnt a lot from you two.

Dear Cat,

Where you found that nice toys? I occasionaly go to SZ. Is there has shop for tube amp?

KTChow

Dear KT Chow,

We get almost all our products from 萬商電器城. NOT ALL sellers there are reliable but fortunately, we managed to get hold of one or two.

We dealt with Relyon many times and their services are excellent; at least to us.

We will be going again of 1st Feb. afternoon. If you can spare the time, you may as well join us.

CAT

Hi Alfcat,

I like to order the and built 1 of the preamp from hififever, i still haven't made up my mind which 1 is better, the Arc SP10, LS7, or the marantz 7, could any body here give me a hint, i be very grateful, i like to order the preamp case from here too, is there a cheaper case for it?


thanks

Dear KKwan,

From what I have heard ... Marantz 7 is good for female vocals. However, the Bass part is not really outstanding. A well designed M7 gives good details of music. It mainly excels itself in mid to higher frequencies.

Audio Note one is good as well. It MAY not give better details than Marantz 7 but its mid to lower frequencies give better response.

I have also heard about comments for other pre-amps. The best way is, of course, see if you can listen to it. Hearing is everything.

The kits from Hi Fi Fever should be okay. I am not saying that you can't find better ... but sometimes, you really NEED to FIND.

Case is always a problem. I have been searching for a good case for over 5 months but still no satisfying one. The Entry 100 from my3c.net is acceptable (ONLY if the extra face cover board) but expensive. All good cases are well over HK$ 1K.

CAT

Any one interested in those pre-amp case, I have one white with separate power supply and one black without power supply. If your guys interested, you can om me. But they are expensive.....

Cat,

I need to work on 1, Feb. Enjoy your trip.

Thanks,
KT Chow

Dear Accphoto,

Would you please send me the photos of those Pre-Amp cases. I can take photo size up to 1M each without problem. Let's me see if I can find you some buyer.

You can quote me the estimated price for them as well in the email.

My colleagues are still discussing about the JP-200. We are a bit busy these days as we are preparing for Parents' Day + Open Day in the coming two weeks.

Many thanks.

CAT

Dear KT,

I just learned that the school cancelled our half day off on 1st of Feb. We can't go as well as we need to work to at leastl 4pm.

Maybe I collect some information for you so that you can call them up directly when needed.

CAT

I am out of town at the moment and can send it when I back this weekend. Actually, the black one can also sell with separate power supply as I can change the panel. The size are 430mmx292mmx75mm. They are made of 4mm alumium panel  and 6mm alumium panel on the front. Each will weight about 3kg, plenty tough stuff.  I am intend to sell one set , one pre-amp case and one power supply case as I may still want to use it to build another one. All holes at the back are opened with 4 sets input and 2 set output for RCA and 1 input and output for unbalanced.

Dear Accphoto,

No hurry. We will wait until you get back.

My colleagues all hope that you can set them a larger photo of the JP 200. Just one for each will be okay; power unit and Amp unit.

Await your return for the time being

CAT